Generally increase in density means townhomes, then smaller/more townhomes, then apartment buildings all where otherwise single family projects would go
I answered no on the smaller/denser poll only because I think smaller houses make sense, more than high density. My main issue, as a parent of school-age kids where one kid has attended 3 different elementary schools, is that density will only exacerbate issues like traffic (I already seriously hate all of the 2-lane roads, they don't need more people on them) and school overcrowding. Why do we need so many 3k sq. ft. houses? Build some 1500 sq. ft. ones.
It's a little off-topic, but deeply connected to this topic so I'll mention it here: traffic will always get worse if the main focus remains on roads and single-occupancy cars. While density brings more people who may bring more cars, dense townhomes can provide a better opportunity for infrastructure that promotes the freedom to choose alternative transportation modes--walking, bikes, busses, scooters, and rideshare.
In other words, if we discourage additional low-density sprawl in favor of higher density builds, we reduce the economic strain on road and utilities spending, and can help more people get more places with fewer cars.
STOP BUILDING!!!! THIS IS NOT NEW YORK CITY!! THE ROADS CAN'T HANDLE THIS CRAP!! KNOW YOU LOVE BUT THE TAX REVENUE!! YOU ARE KILLING THE LIVABILITY OF THIS PLACE!! MORE DENSE HOUSING??? TRY SKYSCRAPERS!! CARY, NC .. IS ALREADY DOING THIS CRAP!! NOT SURE IF I WANT TO LIVE HERE ANYMORE!! :=(
I'm just some guy that moved here about 10 years ago, so take this as my opinion as someone who is relatively new to the area.
Apex is less than 30 minutes away from an international airport, and Cary has a train station allowing access to Amtrak servicing the entire eastern seaboard.
People will naturally gravitate towards transportation centers, and those people need to live, eat, and work with reasonable distance. That requires building to meet everyone's needs as population grows.
I don't think any of the proposed plans are for extremely high density development such as skyscrapers. Apex has already had a number of medium density townhome communities built, and I definitely share your sentiment that the roads are being overwhelmed. However, that's why I'm excited to see a transportation hub built. Getting cars off the road starts with offering competitive, convenient alternatives, and those don't happen immediately.
Change can definitely be a bummer for sure, but it's not something that should be stopped, especially so close to an important link for NC to the rest of the country and the world. Rather, coming forward with constructive criticism that describes what you're really concerned about is the best way to be heard and understood.
Noted: The United States is a roulette wheel. Seattle, Portland, Chicago, Miami, Dallas, and the list goes on. When you note a city as the next great place. Mass migration! Build, destroy the quality of life and then move on to the next. Another good example would be the industrial Northeast. SYR, BUF, ALB, ROC and the Rust Belt. When the builders finish destroying this place, they will move on to the next great place as noted in Money Magazine. Apex, was 2,500 ppl. when I grew up here and moved here in 1968/yr. Not a great place anymore! The people that are moving here to escape where they came from, are turning it into the exact same place. We have about 6 more years of the tail end of the baby boom generation. All trying to find a cheaper place to retire too. Unfortunately, that only works for people coming from High cost states with $$$ left over, and drives all the locals that were here long before you got here OUT!! That is how the game is played. Thank you Money Magazine!
While I do agree that it sucks when your old small town charm is lost to a growing town, building denser and sustainably is your best shot at preserving that and not destroying a town. I hope you wouldnt disagree that excessive suburban sprawl with neighborhoods being built everywhere and clearing out half the trees is very bad for a towns character. Densifying greatly helps stop that by reducing the amount of neighborhoods and instead building new capacity within the same footprint of already exists homes.
Not really. The Town is addicted to TAX revenue, Wages, etc.... How do you stop this massive building nonsense? Simple... it is called Zoning!! This is what will stop this crap!!
Land owners get to choose to hold/ sell/ improve/ develop their land. So, it seems growth is going to continue for a while whether you like it or not... and thanks to our developer-beholden legislature here in NC; municipalities don't have a lot of power to assess impacts. So, of course there are down sides, like increased traffic... which could be at least partially alleviated if we had better mass transit. So a project like this would be a potential solution to that problem, no?
The yellow areas, in particular the undeveloped yellow areas (this map isn't all that impactful for parcels which have already "developed" and are unlikely to redevelop) could potentially be townhomes in the future
Yeah, I saw this plan years ago at a town council meeting and the problem then and now is that the medium density residential, which includes townhomes, is being developed overwhelmingly (in my area, anyway) with townhomes, and the streets and other infrastructure is not keeping up. I know banks only want to finance townhomes, but a lot more of that map should probably be low density residential so there is at least a mix of kinds of residences.
In addition, should a downturn come, the townhomes are going to go vacant much faster than separate houses, and they are concentrated so that the neighborhood goes downhill much faster. It would be one thing if Apex had the commercial and industrial base to employ all the residents, but it's a bedroom community, which makes us far more vulnerable to downturns we can't and don't control, like big companies moving out (imagine if SAS and Cisco moved, for instance - we'd be in serious trouble).
Plus, you'd think the higher density homes would be generating more tax revenue per acre, but it sounds like that's not really happening. That's hard to understand given that if you jam three or four houses on the same street frontage as one house (as is happening with townhomes) you'd think that the sum total of the property value along there would be far higher. If it's not, then density has zero advantage to the town. So I don't know what's going on with that. I do know that even 15 years ago when I moved here, infrastructure was already so overburdened that my kids couldn't attend the school within walking distance (Baucom) because it was capped. Since then, we have just gone on jamming more and more people onto the same amount of land. Great for the developers but I am not sure what the current residents get out of it.
Apex will do well to focus on providing only essential services typical of the limited government our founders envisioned.
County-wide (Apex included) the population and development continues, traffic worsens, and wish lists of all sorts of “goodies” expand as does our taxes.
More people than we can handle continue to move in, increasing property values… on top of rate increases.
Consider advocating for NO PROPERTY TAX for seniors who finally pay off their mortgages.
Government administrations tend to TAKE too much from the people to DO too much for the people.
Let’s aim for EFFICIENT, EFFECTIVE and LEANER administration.
A Mobility Hub makes no sense at for Apex. Apex is a bedroom community - meaning that folks who live in Apex travel to other cities to work where corporations and dense places of work exist, e.g. RTP, downtown Raleigh, north Raleigh, downtown Durham, Cary, etc.. Where would the buses take people to? All of these places that are scattered over 40+ mile radius? How would people get to the Mobility Hub - another bus?? It would be near impossible for the system to charge enough to pay for itself. Which means higher taxes for those who live in Apex and who will ultimately subsidize this program. I SAY A BIG NO!
Is that pedestrian bridge over what I'm assuming is highway 55 funded with the replacement railroad bridge/hwy 55 expansion or an unfunded phase 3 for this project?
Seems like it would be cheaper to just add a pedestrian walkway with the bridge replacement
It's a grim calculus, full of ifs, ands, and buts: weighing housing affordability against everything else that "more people" might mean (both good and bad). I do not envy at all the jobs of the public officials and employees who have to try working it out. And I continue to appreciate your efforts just to lay it all out for us, Terry. Thank you!
Hi Terry - for the poll, can you help me understand what dense means? Are these still standalone buildings for each home?
Generally increase in density means townhomes, then smaller/more townhomes, then apartment buildings all where otherwise single family projects would go
I answered no on the smaller/denser poll only because I think smaller houses make sense, more than high density. My main issue, as a parent of school-age kids where one kid has attended 3 different elementary schools, is that density will only exacerbate issues like traffic (I already seriously hate all of the 2-lane roads, they don't need more people on them) and school overcrowding. Why do we need so many 3k sq. ft. houses? Build some 1500 sq. ft. ones.
It's a little off-topic, but deeply connected to this topic so I'll mention it here: traffic will always get worse if the main focus remains on roads and single-occupancy cars. While density brings more people who may bring more cars, dense townhomes can provide a better opportunity for infrastructure that promotes the freedom to choose alternative transportation modes--walking, bikes, busses, scooters, and rideshare.
In other words, if we discourage additional low-density sprawl in favor of higher density builds, we reduce the economic strain on road and utilities spending, and can help more people get more places with fewer cars.
STOP BUILDING!!!! THIS IS NOT NEW YORK CITY!! THE ROADS CAN'T HANDLE THIS CRAP!! KNOW YOU LOVE BUT THE TAX REVENUE!! YOU ARE KILLING THE LIVABILITY OF THIS PLACE!! MORE DENSE HOUSING??? TRY SKYSCRAPERS!! CARY, NC .. IS ALREADY DOING THIS CRAP!! NOT SURE IF I WANT TO LIVE HERE ANYMORE!! :=(
Hi Thomas,
I'm just some guy that moved here about 10 years ago, so take this as my opinion as someone who is relatively new to the area.
Apex is less than 30 minutes away from an international airport, and Cary has a train station allowing access to Amtrak servicing the entire eastern seaboard.
People will naturally gravitate towards transportation centers, and those people need to live, eat, and work with reasonable distance. That requires building to meet everyone's needs as population grows.
I don't think any of the proposed plans are for extremely high density development such as skyscrapers. Apex has already had a number of medium density townhome communities built, and I definitely share your sentiment that the roads are being overwhelmed. However, that's why I'm excited to see a transportation hub built. Getting cars off the road starts with offering competitive, convenient alternatives, and those don't happen immediately.
Change can definitely be a bummer for sure, but it's not something that should be stopped, especially so close to an important link for NC to the rest of the country and the world. Rather, coming forward with constructive criticism that describes what you're really concerned about is the best way to be heard and understood.
Noted: The United States is a roulette wheel. Seattle, Portland, Chicago, Miami, Dallas, and the list goes on. When you note a city as the next great place. Mass migration! Build, destroy the quality of life and then move on to the next. Another good example would be the industrial Northeast. SYR, BUF, ALB, ROC and the Rust Belt. When the builders finish destroying this place, they will move on to the next great place as noted in Money Magazine. Apex, was 2,500 ppl. when I grew up here and moved here in 1968/yr. Not a great place anymore! The people that are moving here to escape where they came from, are turning it into the exact same place. We have about 6 more years of the tail end of the baby boom generation. All trying to find a cheaper place to retire too. Unfortunately, that only works for people coming from High cost states with $$$ left over, and drives all the locals that were here long before you got here OUT!! That is how the game is played. Thank you Money Magazine!
While I do agree that it sucks when your old small town charm is lost to a growing town, building denser and sustainably is your best shot at preserving that and not destroying a town. I hope you wouldnt disagree that excessive suburban sprawl with neighborhoods being built everywhere and clearing out half the trees is very bad for a towns character. Densifying greatly helps stop that by reducing the amount of neighborhoods and instead building new capacity within the same footprint of already exists homes.
Not really. The Town is addicted to TAX revenue, Wages, etc.... How do you stop this massive building nonsense? Simple... it is called Zoning!! This is what will stop this crap!!
Land owners get to choose to hold/ sell/ improve/ develop their land. So, it seems growth is going to continue for a while whether you like it or not... and thanks to our developer-beholden legislature here in NC; municipalities don't have a lot of power to assess impacts. So, of course there are down sides, like increased traffic... which could be at least partially alleviated if we had better mass transit. So a project like this would be a potential solution to that problem, no?
Smell ya later Tommy!
Your nose is up my A**? Whatever turns you on!
Are we seriously contemplating even MORE townhouses? Has nobody seen the traffic situation around here?
The land use map contemplates a variety of potential uses for the land surrounding Apex, some of which is townhomes yes.
Look here: https://www.apexnc.org/DocumentCenter/View/478/2045-Land-Use-Map-PDF
The yellow areas, in particular the undeveloped yellow areas (this map isn't all that impactful for parcels which have already "developed" and are unlikely to redevelop) could potentially be townhomes in the future
Yeah, I saw this plan years ago at a town council meeting and the problem then and now is that the medium density residential, which includes townhomes, is being developed overwhelmingly (in my area, anyway) with townhomes, and the streets and other infrastructure is not keeping up. I know banks only want to finance townhomes, but a lot more of that map should probably be low density residential so there is at least a mix of kinds of residences.
In addition, should a downturn come, the townhomes are going to go vacant much faster than separate houses, and they are concentrated so that the neighborhood goes downhill much faster. It would be one thing if Apex had the commercial and industrial base to employ all the residents, but it's a bedroom community, which makes us far more vulnerable to downturns we can't and don't control, like big companies moving out (imagine if SAS and Cisco moved, for instance - we'd be in serious trouble).
Plus, you'd think the higher density homes would be generating more tax revenue per acre, but it sounds like that's not really happening. That's hard to understand given that if you jam three or four houses on the same street frontage as one house (as is happening with townhomes) you'd think that the sum total of the property value along there would be far higher. If it's not, then density has zero advantage to the town. So I don't know what's going on with that. I do know that even 15 years ago when I moved here, infrastructure was already so overburdened that my kids couldn't attend the school within walking distance (Baucom) because it was capped. Since then, we have just gone on jamming more and more people onto the same amount of land. Great for the developers but I am not sure what the current residents get out of it.
Apex will do well to focus on providing only essential services typical of the limited government our founders envisioned.
County-wide (Apex included) the population and development continues, traffic worsens, and wish lists of all sorts of “goodies” expand as does our taxes.
More people than we can handle continue to move in, increasing property values… on top of rate increases.
Consider advocating for NO PROPERTY TAX for seniors who finally pay off their mortgages.
Government administrations tend to TAKE too much from the people to DO too much for the people.
Let’s aim for EFFICIENT, EFFECTIVE and LEANER administration.
A Mobility Hub makes no sense at for Apex. Apex is a bedroom community - meaning that folks who live in Apex travel to other cities to work where corporations and dense places of work exist, e.g. RTP, downtown Raleigh, north Raleigh, downtown Durham, Cary, etc.. Where would the buses take people to? All of these places that are scattered over 40+ mile radius? How would people get to the Mobility Hub - another bus?? It would be near impossible for the system to charge enough to pay for itself. Which means higher taxes for those who live in Apex and who will ultimately subsidize this program. I SAY A BIG NO!
Is that pedestrian bridge over what I'm assuming is highway 55 funded with the replacement railroad bridge/hwy 55 expansion or an unfunded phase 3 for this project?
Seems like it would be cheaper to just add a pedestrian walkway with the bridge replacement
Unfunded phase 3. This is just "concepts of a plan"
The bridge replacement is a DOT project and who knows when that will actually occur.
It's a grim calculus, full of ifs, ands, and buts: weighing housing affordability against everything else that "more people" might mean (both good and bad). I do not envy at all the jobs of the public officials and employees who have to try working it out. And I continue to appreciate your efforts just to lay it all out for us, Terry. Thank you!
Simple fix! It's called Zoning Laws! That is what STOPS THIS CRAP!!